Some remember him from the stage of "Aisi Taisi Democracy", for his satirical remarks against Hindu nationalism, while some absolutely adore him for writing those poetic verses in the recently popular Hindi song "Shauq".

Film enthusiasts recognise him for his wonderful storytelling in "Masaan"—a rare Bollywood film dealing with casteism in India. And some might know him as the feminist ally 'Majnu' in "Qala", a recently released film on Netflix.

National Award-winning lyricist, scriptwriter, stand-up comedian, political satirist, poet and now director, Varun Grover has been gliding through all these creative roles for the whole of the last decade. He shines in each role with the magical combination of wit, poetry, and honesty.

The Daily Star spoke with Varun on a chilly February morning in Rotterdam, Netherlands, just before his debut film "All India Rank" premiered as the first South Asian closing film at International Film Festival Rotterdam (IFFR).

With a hint of excitement and wit in his voice, Varun talked to us about his first film, personal journey, song writing process, and feminism. 

What is "All India Rank" about?

"All India Rank" is actually a semi-autobiographical film. I grew up in Lucknow in the 1990s, just when the Indian economy was being liberalised. And suddenly there was this obsession in the middle-class to reach the next level of the class system, by sending their kids to highly competitive educational institutions—like, IIT (Indian Institute of Technology).

I am also a part of that first wave of social obsession. Eventually, I went to an IIT as well. I think that period is a defining one for me, as it was for an entire Indian generation. So, that was the origin point of the film. I tried to tell what I went through, what my friends went through at that particular time.

I tried to tell the story of a 16/17-year-old going through the competitive education system and his personal struggle as a teenager in the backdrop of the 1990s. You can say it's a coming-of-age film.

In Bollywood, films rarely deal with stories of teenagers or young adults. Even if they do, it is usually something very commercial like "Student of the Year". With "All India Rank", I tried to make a film that is simple and authentic.

Are you excited about your directorial debut? Especially given that it will take place at such a reputable international film festival?

I am very excited! International Film Festival Rotterdam (IFFR) is one of my dream festivals, it has been on my wish list for so long.

It's a new film, in terms of a totally new crew. First time cinematographer, first time production designer, first time music composer, and of course me as a first-time director! We don't have any stars. So, we wanted a platform that can focus on the film, and only on the film. This festival is the perfect platform in that regard. And in today's world, when every film festival is struggling with maintaining authenticity and having a voice, IFFR still stands as one of the most genuine film festivals which represent new voices. So, I am really happy that they selected our film. And being selected as the closing film, as you have mentioned, is truly a big honour.

When did you realize you wanted to be a filmmaker?

I only knew that I wanted to write. Even in ITT, I figured that much out. And when I started writing for films, I found out that if you want your voice to be uncompromised, if you want full creative control, you have to be the director, you can't just be the writer. A writer's work very naturally gets reinterpreted by the director and the entire team. Then something gets lost in the interpretation. Even in a best-case scenario like "Masaan", which is written by me and directed by a talented director like Neeraj Ghaywan, I still felt something was different, different from what I imagined while writing.

So, when I was thinking of this particular story about a teenage boy growing up in the 1990s, I wanted to tell it by myself. This was too personal, too strong a feeling of nostalgia. And nostalgia is probably the most personal thing in the world, it is almost as personal as your own body and your own feelings. So, I did not want to give this story to any other director.
 

Was it scary to take the decision to leave a secure job to become a storyteller?

For me, 'scary' was not following my dream. Thanks to both my parents, who were very supportive. We have this concept of a 'settled' life defined by getting good job, getting married, and so on. But my parents were pretty okay with me not following that path.

I was constantly aware of the fact that life can end at any time. It is a slightly depressing thought. But I always knew that the end of life is just a moment away. So, if you want to take a chance on something, you have to do it now, right away! I thought let's at least try it. After that, if it doesn't work, that's all right.

If nothing else worked out, I would open a food cart and sell Poha. You know, I can definitely make the best Poha in the world.

Let's move on to your lyrics. "Tu Kisi Rail si Gujarti Hain" from "Masaan" is a favourite of mine. I loved it because you could capture the language of the protagonist who comes from a lower socio-economic background. You knew how a boy growing up in Benaras, struggling with both caste and class system, would express his feeling of falling in love. As a lyricist, how do you represent this in your song?

The script and the brief from the director help a lot of course. But when you are writing, you have to know the world of that particular story very well. Knowing the world very intimately, and internalising the world where the story or the film is taking place is very important. For this song from "Masaan", it was a must to understand the surroundings of Benaras. For "Moh Moh ke Dhaage" from "Dum Laga ke Haisha", I had to understand when the song is taking place and what complicated emotion it is expressing. Because only then, you can imagine. After that, it's a magical process of writing.

It might be a bit offensive to ask an artist how they make a piece of art. But I'm really curious to know your process of song writing.

No, of course, you can ask that. Writing poetry or song is a magical process indeed. You never really know how it is happening. But that 'not knowing' might also be the process of my writing.

Mirza Ghalib said it very beautifully, "aate hain ghaib se ye mazaameen khayaal mein,'Ghalib', sareer-e-Khaama nawa-e-sarosh hai." Here, he is saying that when mysterious thoughts come to you, then the sound of your pen on paper is like the whisper of angels. I think 200 years ago, Ghalib explained very well how poetry is created. It's simply angels whispering into your ear and that converts into the sound of pen on paper.

A lot has changed in terms of songs in Bollywood. There aren't any four-minute-long songs anymore. A lot of films don't cut to song sequences anymore, rather songs have transformed into tools for driving the narrative. As a lyricist, what do you feel about that?

I don't necessarily dislike the trend. It is challenging, but it is a good challenge. Eventually, I think it can help renew the quality of music and lyrics. Right now, it is a transitioning period. A lot of old music is being remixed and recreated. We don't cut to longer songs anymore as you have said. I say it is a net positive for music because when songs have to complement the story, a more diverse range of songs is bound to come up.

We first got to know you as a stand-up comedian, to be precise a political satirist actually. And you always seemed to be a feminist with a defined political view. Do these sides of you impact your work?

I always believe that you are your politics. On the other hand, the things you create are part of your identity too. So, without any conscious effort, your political ideology is bound to be reflected in your films, lyrics, and whatever you create. If you are making an effort and you have to go back to check if everything is politically correct or not, you might have to check your ideology first.

About being a feminist, I must say that it is a default thing to be. 'Feminism' is a political terminology, but in simple terms, it only means being compassionate and kind to that half of the society who have been conventionally oppressed. And that should come naturally to everyone because we are the only species with the power of reflection, thinking, and imagination.

I believe that being a feminist is way easier than not being a feminist. If you always have to calculate this is how I should play my power dynamics, this is how I should plot against the other half of the society who already have a history of subjugation…isn't that exhausting? Manipulation and power play take so much energy out of you! It is like you are creating a stampede when there is enough space for everyone to stand and lie down. So, I am still puzzled about why more people are not by default feminists.

We, in Bangladesh, love your performances, songs, and films. What will you say to your Bangladeshi fans?

I am really glad to know that people in Bangladesh know me. It is truly an honour that Bangladeshi people love my work. I also want to learn Bangla/Bengali. It has such an enriched heritage of literature and films. I would really love to learn the language so that I can enjoy them without losing anything in translation.